The Sober Experience
Recovery and mental health, spirituality and life. We will be sitting down with people in and out of recovery who have helpful tips and shared experiences to provide better love and understanding on this earth. There will be a wide veriaty of topics discussed and after each interview there will be another reflection episode where I can analyze what we spoke of and what sticks to mind.
The Sober Experience
Choosing Integrity and Connection in Life's Journey
Embark on a soul-searching journey with me, Jay Luis, as I recount the enlightening evening my wife and I spent at a Jordan Peterson event. It was a night where the misunderstood narratives spun by Peterson were untangled, revealing a tapestry of wisdom applicable to our modern lives. The discussion takes a leap into the realms of success, sparked by musings on Dame Dash and Kanye West's perspectives, urging us to redefine victory in the broader context of our existence.
The value of integrity, reputation, and community stands at the forefront of our next chapter, as I reflect on the real treasures of life. It's not the size of your bank account, but the depth of your relationships and the strength of your character that shapes your legacy. Through tales of personal growth and a touching story about my daughter, we explore the significance of choosing a path paved with moral principles and heartfelt connections, even when faced with life's hardest knocks.
Wrapping up our session, we address the tough choices when dealing with family conflict. Should one seek retribution or strive for peace? I share the emotional tumult and the sage advice from my sponsor, coupled with the lessons my son taught me about choosing happiness. And as a bonus, there's an update on an intriguing speaking engagement at Perry Street, complete with a whimsical near-encounter with Sam Smith. Be sure to subscribe and follow along as we navigate the choices that lead to a more fulfilling life, together in the Sober Experience.
Hello and welcome to the Sober Experience, formerly known as the Spiritual Experience, where we share stories of overcoming problematic situations in life through triumph and working together, as well as recovery topics and all other forms of spirituality, self-help and the like. I'm your host, jay Lewis, and here we go. What's up everybody, welcome back, sober Experience. Don't forget to like and subscribe on all podcast platforms, including again our YouTube page. Yeah, hope you guys enjoyed last week's episode with my boy, jimmy. We recorded that a little while ago.
Speaker 1:He's a beautiful guy. He's out there polar bearing it. He also has, I think, like a Windows installation company or something. He's rocking out. He's a hustler. He's a hustler. He's doing good work, man. He's doing good work, man.
Speaker 1:It's nice to see people trying to be in the grace. You know that's like striving. It's like the whole thing. You know how do we turn these corners Every day, every choice is another corner. You, you know we can't ever stop like you can't. You know we can't ever get comfortable. It's scary, but it's, it's real. You know, it's fucking real. You know a couple of things going on. You can break them down, break them, break them down, break them, break them down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this past week took my wife to see one of the kings, jordan Peterson, and if you were prejudiced the way that I am prejudiced, not against Jordan you'd be like, oh my God, he's a racist. Oh my God, he's a transphobe. And oh my God he's a racist. Oh my God, he's a transphobe. And oh my God, all these other things and I don't know, maybe some of those are true, doubtful, personally, because I've listened to hours and hours and hours and hours of his talks and it was incredible just to see him live. It was really impressive and it was really impactful and I recommend to anybody I think the name of the show is those who Wrestle With God and it's important man. It's important stuff is that he is weaving Bible stories to people so they can use them in their everyday life, and it was really good. It was really good.
Speaker 1:I'll give you guys like a little bit of a synopsis. You know it's nothing that you haven't heard and what's nice is that you know here's a highly affluent or educated man or whatever, and you know he's trying to live his life the same way I'm trying to live mine, you know. So there's that which is nice, because a lot of times you know it's very comfortable, just to get confirmation that you're doing the right thing, that you're living the right way and that you're making the right decisions. You know, if you don't have good, positive people in your life or just people in general that you bounce things off of, how do you even know if you're winning? How do you even know if you're winning? And I guess winning is basically, uh, subjective, right?
Speaker 1:I also was listening to a little clip of um having um done the whole thing. But um, I was listening to an interview with dame dash and he was being interviewed by PBD and Dame was talking about how he was talking to Kanye and Kanye was like this was years ago when Kanye was entangled with Trump, and he was like Trump is the man he's winning, he's this, that, whatever. And Dame was like Yo, he's got good ideas, but how is he winning If all his team is locked up? That's not winning. You know that you're not a boss if everybody's going to jail or everybody's going down except for you. And I appreciated that perspective. I do. I appreciated that perspective and I'm not like a huge Trump guy. Some of his ideas are fantastic. Some of them suck, just like everybody else talking about decision making and choices that you make in your life.
Speaker 1:And he was using the first. He was using a few stories. He was using the story of Moses in the Bible and the other story, cain and Abel. And you know he's like yo. Moses is in, he's a shepherd, he's doing his thing, mind you, he's uh, you know he's a shepherd and he reminds everybody how difficult of a job that was back in the day. You know you're a shepherd. You got to watch the sheep, got to make sure they don't get picked off. There's all kind of animals and all kind of predators out there that'll kill your flock. You don't have an iphone or some, but there's something telling you what's going on. You know there's no ar-15s or whatever. Yeah, this is fucking. It's a real fucking job man, stressful, I'm sure, and he happened. Moses apparently was a good one anyway. So you know he.
Speaker 1:You know he's saying that. You know he's walking through whatever Sees the burning bush. Right now nobody knows if there was really a bush and was it really burning. Who the fuck knows? That's pure speculation. But what he's saying is that, like the bush was like calling to him, you know, and saying you know all the things that it was saying and he was like yo, well, how would I? Uh, nobody's going to believe me, you know, if I go back and you know, let my people go, the whole thing. And um, god apparently told Moses like yo, just tell them it's from me and they'll listen, you know.
Speaker 1:So he, meaning Jordan, is saying that you know, we have these burning bushes in our life. We have these burning bushes in our life when, like, we're doing our thing and something is calling to us. Now, it doesn't mean it's a spiritual thing or God or whatever, or something like that, but there's something that's calling to you that's against your will. That's what's happening and you're being drawn towards something. That's what's happening and you're being drawn towards something, and he's saying that you should follow that. That is what a calling is. It's not like, oh, a choice. It's like something beyond a choice. It's something that you are attracted to. You know that it's against your will, that it's against your will. It's pulling you against your will. Whether it's a love interest, whether it's a career, you won't have any problems being dedicated to it because it's real and he's like. You need to pay attention to that. That's the way that you need to go.
Speaker 1:So, in the story Moses is like doing all this shit to please God and whatever. And you know the story goes is that you know what the comparison to your regular life is, that you know if you please God, then you're happy and then you're doing your purpose. And you have to think about all of those things versus what do you personally want? You know, so you may not be pleasing god, but you are going to be getting, you're going to be happy if you just follow those embers. You know those little lights that they, they bring you from place to place throughout your life. You know. You know when you're going down the wrong path. You know. You just know. You just know Sometimes you make a mistake, but willingly going is a different thing. You know and I thought that was very impactful because I had that in my life where you know different jobs or whatever that I had like.
Speaker 1:Yes, that was like the quote-unquote moth to a flame, but also like the very impactful things like my decision to take sobriety seriously. That's like something that I don't have to work on, that that decision is inside my heart, it's inside my spirit, it's inside my spirit, it's inside my soul and that's why I do all the shit that I do Because it happens against my will. Like I know that this is the way for me, like you just know it. Same thing with my business. Similar, like with my wife, with my woman. Man, when I met her I was like, oh man, it's very. Yeah, you know, I was falling in love with this person against my will. Yeah, that was yeah, that was tough. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the whole talk and this guy he spoke for like 90 minutes. He was weaving that in with like okay, now that you follow this flame, you know, to try and get fulfillment and happiness and try and be useful on earth. Now he starts talking about Cain and Abel. He's like okay, like you know, now, while you're on that path, you have choices that you have to make. You have choices that you can make which are selfish and selfless. You know that go along that keep you on that path. And those choices, you know from actions that you take, you know you're going to be responsible for.
Speaker 1:And that's what he was also saying that, like you know, obviously, for those who know, like you know, cain killed his brother, you know, because he was mad at God and he's mad at the world and he's mad at everything. And God was just telling him you are not doing your best. That's why I'm not happy with you. And meanwhile he was blaming everybody else. He eventually kills his own brother. You know and he was saying things without saying them directly that there are groups of people that blame everything on everybody else and don't have any agency in their own suffering or in their own life. They don't have any of that stuff. That it's just a blame game. And he didn't have to label people so he could make it for everybody, which was beautiful, you know, because you know he was saying that God told Cain like, look, you know that anger, that hate, that jealousy, that rage was basically like the devil coming to your door whispering all these things.
Speaker 1:And he wasn't telling you hey, cain, do your best. He was telling you no, you're not getting your fair share. And look at Abel God fucking loves him. And look at you, you're not getting your fair share. And look at abel god fucking loves him. And look at you, you're not getting your fair share. The bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, um, yeah. And then you he's like so it's your responsibility. You let that devil into your home and then you started.
Speaker 1:And the devil doesn't bring you all the way to murder right away. But what it does is One second. I'm texting my son. I'm sorry, but what it does is that it requires your participation, a little bit at a time. It's seductive. Let me cut this corner. Let me do this thing. Let me tell this lie. Let me have this side piece. Let me, you know, rip off this person. Let me take this shortcut I don't know if I said that twice. Take this shortcut, whatever, and it's a rational thought to have, whatever and it's a rational thought to have.
Speaker 1:But to entertain all of those thoughts will lead you down a hole where you could probably, at the end is you kill your own brother, and it makes sense to you why you do it, and it's still everybody else's fault. But meanwhile you took a life. But in reality you're taking your own life when you are making those choices, because you're robbing yourself of happiness, of true happiness. You're going to have like elation along the way oh I got over, oh, I made some extra money, oh, I did this.
Speaker 1:But what he was talking about is like OK, like your pursuit of material things and wealth in those ways. You know, it doesn't mean that if you live virtuous, that you won't get that. The likelihood of you getting it is actually great. But what happens is is that like it could all go away and the most important thing that you have on this earth is your integrity, your name, your reputation and who you are. So if you build your castle based on those principles, which are basically, he was saying, foregoing short-term satisfaction for long-term results, then then when life happens and a fucking flood comes or whatever and washes away your shmoney, you have the community, you have your integrity, you have all those people that will help you when, if you don't live that way, you will have nothing. And a lot of people have nothing and don't even have the riches. They just have nothing because of their actions, their attitude, their behavior. They know everything. They know everything and it's not easy. It takes a lot of faith to let go of those ideas.
Speaker 1:I know I was the same way in in in parts of my life, in the young, my younger years. I was like that fully, but I was, I was always a little bit of a giver only, but for favors, like favor for a favor whatever. If I'm doing this, if I'm helping you with this, then I know that I can call on you for that. I can just help you, just to help you, and then I can still call on you and you can still say no, like nobody owes me anything. I was talking to my boy, Amr, and I was just like bro. There's like what's the reality, oh, and I was telling my cousin Tim too, it's like the reality is is that my name is good in places that that don't yield me any financial reward. They're good in my community. They're good with the way that I give back to people in our community. They're good in recovery. They're good with my family.
Speaker 1:You know whatever contacts I have in my phone. You know whatever contacts I have in my phone. Like this if I just blasted a text message this is what I told my cousin I said if I texted a hundred people, you know. If I tested a thousand people on my phone and asked for a hundred dollars, I know 200 people will send that hundred. I'm like yo, I'm in a bad spot. This, that and the third. I know there's 200 people that will send that 100. I'm like yo, I'm in a bad spot. This, that and the third. I know there's 200 people that will send me 100 bucks, maybe more. That's what he said. He's like, probably more.
Speaker 1:I'm like, yeah, and it feels good to have access to that, to the love of other people unconditionally. Because of who you are, because of your moral fabric. I can't help anybody in any ways aside from just loving them and teaching them and showing them and being with them. That's how I could help them and being a real friend. I had to learn how to do that in recovery. I didn't know how to be a friend before I had in recovery. I didn't know how to be a friend before I had friends, but I didn't know how to be a good one. There was times when my friend needed something and I fucking fronted on them. I did. I fronted Self-preservation when now there are no friends that I have in my life that I need to front on to save my own ass, which is nice, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's what the whole talk was about Convert your ideology and your thinking to long-term stuff instead of foregoing, and forego short-term, immediate satisfactions. What's his name? Teddy Atlas says the same thing. He says try to submit less Submission. It's one thing to surrender, it's another thing to submit, and that's a big deal, you know. So that was very impactful and I'm happy about that. And we had like a little bit of a test of my sanity.
Speaker 1:My youngest daughter, you know she's in this program at Pratt. She got accepted to the college she wants to go to. I'm sure I already shared it, but she's been in like this honors program at Pratt for like two years, three years, whatever, anyways there's. So it's been going pretty good, I guess. You know she has college credit, they have college, she, they, they, whatever, they have college credits, all kind of shit. And there's tutors there or mentors that are actual Pratt students that came through that program and two of them decided to play a stupid fucking joke on her and, yeah, I didn't know how to handle it effectively, you know. So basically, what happened was like these two guys maybe they're like 20, they're only like a year or two or whatever older than my kid, but they're like an authority figure, somebody that my kid admires and has been admiring for some time in that way, you know. So they stepped to her and they were like, oh, um, you know, because apparently maybe they're having some kind of graduation or whatever and they were like, hey, listen, oh, you're going to be the speaker for the graduation and then. So she interpreted that the way that they said it, which was that they're asking her to do that and it was beautiful. And she came home and she was anxious and she was excited and she felt valid, not validated, but she felt honored, similar to what I, you know. Yeah, she felt good. She felt good about that. It was beautiful. You know, she was nervous, talking to her mom about it and whatever.
Speaker 1:And then I come home Wednesday Was it Wednesday, wednesday or Thursday? I come home, yeah, wednesday, and then my wife is like telling me the story that that happened last Saturday and then on Wednesday, when, when she saw them again, they went Told they were like, haha, we were joking, it's not you, you're not Speaking for the graduation. And it just like Crushed her little heart and I went Right away Into Sickle mode, you know, and I was a little bit aggressive with my kid. I was like who do you communicate with at the school? Who's in charge of the program, this? That?
Speaker 1:Now I'm like being like a Karen, right. I'm like I'm going to send an email, right, because I want the people in authority to understand who is mentoring. You know what happened. I'm not making a super, super judgment call because they're young kids and when I was that age I said and did stupid shit, but to me that's like a little bit like bullying. Yeah, it's like bullying, and I'll break that down in a minute. But so I wanted to send an email and I said I need every person that contacts you from that school. I'm going to send it to everybody and send it around so that way everybody knows what these two kids fucking did and it's 100% unacceptable and whatever, whatever, whatever. So I did that. Ended up she only really had two people's emails. She's like there's a high turnover, so it's really this person and this person actually runs the program. And I sent the email.
Speaker 1:In my mind I'm like dude, my little boo, her fucking heart is broken. It's crazy because this is the second time something like that has happened to them. The other time was in like maybe the 8th grade or something, where like some after school program wanted them to give this speech and then at the end they just took it away from them and gave it to somebody else. I was so angry, you know. So, yeah, either way. So that was being like resurrected and it's funny because what happened in that first instance, it all fell apart and the girl who's supposed to give the speech fucked it all up and it was a huge embarrassment and I was like, see, sometimes we get the last laugh, you know. So, anyway, but these are two guys right.
Speaker 1:So in my mind so I'm saying I'm like, listen, if it was a girl that was doing this to my girl, to my kid, I'm like, oh, this is why you have an older sister. You guys go over there and you just fuck this bitch up, because you know what, sometimes that's all that's on the table. Sometimes that's the only way some people learn Is that they just get a slap and that's it. And those of you with young kids, I hope that you learn how to control yourself. Learn how to control yourself Because, as your kid's going through school, there's going to be teachers and educators and faculty and other adult members that are going to talk shit to your kid. They're going to say very disrespectful and disparaging things to your child. Your child's going to come tell you and then they're going to just either you know and be like that's not what I said, that's not what I meant, they misheard me, this, whatever, and it's up to you whether or not to believe your kid.
Speaker 1:Like I told the middle one today, I was like, listen, if it was you or your older brother that came home with this kind of story, I know that the two of you can be like a little bit snarky, so I beg you know, whatever, but my little one dog, no way. She's like a fucking little, fucking Like those things you see on Instagram with like a little bee sleeping in the flower. That's them. You know, they're beautiful and they're perfect in that way. They don't have like an aggressive bone in their body in that way. And so if it was another girl, I'd be like yeah, just, you know, take Adrian with you, I'll give you the plan. You hide behind the bush. You tell the girl yo, you fucked up, say sorry. The girl says no, adrian jumps out and slaps that fucking bitch, and then you guys just throw a fucking beat and then that's it. Because sometimes just people need to be handled and I believe that in my core it's just not the first option, but it has to be on the fucking menu.
Speaker 1:So it's two guys that did that, played this joke on her or whatever, and so the faculty, the head of the program, responds and he's very apologetic and all this other stuff. He's going to talk to them, find out what happened. And then a few days later he gets it. We get another email. Then he's he's like you know, basically he's like straddling the fence, where he's kind of like painting the picture on how things could be misinterpreted but also saying that he's very sorry and whatever. And I was like dude, you see, you know. And then my wife is like no, I'm gonna respond to this one, so I let her fucking. She's like you know, because at the end of the day we can't, you can never tell if those two kids, when they were pressed by the faculty guy, if they they even told the truth or if he even asked them. You can't, but he said that they're going to apologize to her to their face and they're very sorry and it was a mistake or whatever.
Speaker 1:And to me that has to be good enough, because asking people to tell the truth and to live by the shit that we were just talking about In the first ten minutes of this episode, you're asking a fucking lot. You're really asking a lot Of another human being to do that. You know, most people are incapable of doing that. Just being like you know what. I was wrong and I'm sorry and I apologize, and I'm without any fucking by the ways or excuses or whatever like, and I apologize and without any fucking by the ways or excuses or whatever like. They were wrong, that was it and what they did was wrong. So you know, I had to. You know, at the time I didn't let it burn me up for days. My wife she doesn't have any program, you know so she's been mad for like a day and a half.
Speaker 1:You know where me I'm like, look, I let it go to the extent that, like you know that I wasn't just going to run up there ask for a meeting so I could slam the kid's head into the table in front of everybody and then just stand there and wait for the police, because that's also on the menu, you know, and it's okay. You know, to me it's okay, like, I have these um, what are they called? I'm not going to say dreams, visions. I have these visions where I'm like dude, all right, that guy's an artist or whatever he does. Okay, if I just break three of his fingers, guess what? He ain't going to be doing art for six months. He's going to be scared. He's going to learn his lesson. I am going to go to jail for a day or two. I will come out, I will pay the fine let's say it's five grand and I'll do a little bit of community service and I will be one million percent okay with that because that thing is going to live with that kid for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1:That you got to be careful who you fuck with. You just have to be, because if they did that to another boy, if they did that to another boy, if they did that to my son, I'd tell my son listen, how you, how you, however, you want to handle it. You got to handle it. You know, if you're 18, and they're like 20, you got. You don't need me, but these are two, two guys, and then my, my kids. I don't care how the fuck they identified they were a girl to me, dog, these kids was out of line. So you know, my daughter went there today and what was that? Uh-huh, he said this is happening in real time and I love all of you Because I asked them now. I said how did everything go at Pratt? And she said hi, yes, everything went well. I spoke to both Angel and Josh and said how I felt. Josh also said that if you would like, he can apologize to you and my as well, separately. I don't need a. I don't need an apology from that kid, not to me, listen.
Speaker 1:When I was that age again, I said and did things To people Knowing that A repercussion might come, and I did them anyway. You know I did so. I just wanted to make sure they understood that. What do the kids say? Fuck around and find out. That's what they say. You fuck around, you find out. That's why I have all my cousins, my cousins that listen to this show. They know, they know and some people who ended up on the wrong side of that equation. They found out, they fucked around and they found out. They fucked around and they found out. And my cousin was like, oh shit, you thought he was just like a little white boy, that he don't have all these crazy Black and brown Puerto Rican cousins that don't care about their freedom. Because for us it's like it's an even trade, it's okay. Listen, this person, it's like it's an even trade, it's okay, listen, this person, you know, gets busted up face.
Speaker 1:We go to jail for a couple days, we come out, we do some community service, but that person knows not to fuck around anymore. And guess what? Any person that knows them knows not to fuck around anymore. That's if you can't handle things, uh, amicably. You know, like I said, that kind of stuff it's. It's not the first stop, but it is a stop on the train, you know, and as a father and as a son and as a protector, in those ways it's okay.
Speaker 1:So my sponsor, when I call him, he's like trying to like talk me out of, not talk me out of it, but he's trying to reason with me Because he always says like, oh, if you're angry you're wrong, and I'm like no, that's bullshit, because that's what the program kind of tells you. It's like no program kind of tells you. It's like no situations warrant you to be angry. That's real. My response cannot be that vision that I just let go. It can't be my initial response. It can't even be the third or fifth one. I mean, who knows, you know, the wrong day, wrong time. It could be the I don't know. Listen, I haven't gotten into any kind of thing like that in very, very, very long time, extremely so. I've learned how to de-escalate stuff. I've learned how to let stuff go.
Speaker 1:My son, who I love so much, he was everything to me. He put a post on a computer the other day On a computer, and it made me so proud. I told him. I said, listen, this Jordan Peterson shit was so impactful. It was impactful for me because I wasn't learning anything, but I mean, but I wasn't learning anything that I didn't already know. It cemented some stuff and how I make my choices and it's a good reminder how to make good choices. You know, make good choices, that's the whole shit. Make good choices, take good actions. But it would be really impactful for my son Because he's not in a program where he learns how to do that Anyway. So my son makes this thing and it was so inspiring for me.
Speaker 1:It said peace is letting people be wrong about you and I was like, wow, man, that's incredible. I don't know what fucking tablet he got that on, but it was impressive. And I let him know that it was impressive because I need that. I just need more peace. When I have peace, I make better choices. I make better choices, better actions, better decisions, and I'm happier at the end of the day. I'm fucking happy, bro. I'm happy. One choice at a time, and then you know what? I don't whip my own ass. Listen, yesterday I was in full fucking relapse mode. I went to fucking carvel and I bought three sleeves of fucking flying saucers. Bro, I don't know what was going on. I was like the soup of the fuck it's. I had the fuck it's and that's what I did, because I've been, you know, I've been dipping and dabbing with my diet for the last like two weeks.
Speaker 1:It's been hard for me to get to the gym regularly because of the schedule bringing my wife to school, and all I'm doing now is I can spend the next three minutes rattling off excuses, and I think I'm almost done doing that. I'm ready to the suffering is here. I'm ready to not suffer anymore. Change my schedule, lift some weights, do some Muay Thai, go for runs, stretch Yoga, carnivore you know all of that stuff. So even now, like when I leave because I'm in my shop now, you know, I asked my wife. I was like oh boy, I can make some steaks tonight, ufc 300. What? Or I can just grab some wings from Wegmans, whatever. And she's like I don't care either way. So now I have a choice and I'm not going to get the wings, I'm going to get the steaks. I have some steaks with my wife and my little one other one. They're going to hang out with their friends and that's cool. Um, maybe some eggs. I'm gonna watch some fights and smoke a cigar, and life is good, man, life is good. Anyway, we're gonna tap out. Um, I love you guys so much and I appreciate all of you.
Speaker 1:And when I spoke at Perry Street this past week, was that this week? That was this week. Yeah, I went and spoke at Perry Street and there were people there that knew the show which is nice, because I haven't been to that meeting in like 15 years and apparently Sam Smith was sitting outside fucking eating. I don't know. They tell me that guy sings in his underwear. I don't know. I was hoping he'd come in for a meeting, but obviously not, and you know. So it was a pretty good week. Pretty good week. Anyway, like and subscribe, share on all podcast platforms, the Sober Experience, and don't forget about our YouTube page. And we got some more interviews and stuff lined up. So we're getting on the ball with that and I will see you guys on the flip side. Peace.